The admiration between powerful artists is clear when listening to “Insomnia And Seven Steps To Grace”, a new album that infuses lyrical poetry sung by Joy Harjo with the jazz sounds from Grammy award-winning artist esperanza spalding.
Harjo, the Mvskoke citizen and former U.S. Poet Laruette, said she was thrilled to make the album and record for the first time at the legendary Church Studio, that was owned by Leon Russell who brought artists like Tom Petty and The GAP Band to the studio in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
There, with spalding’s production, Harjo’s poetry became songs that were, “put together with these times in mind.”
The collaboration started in 2017, when Harjo worked through some nerves to approach spalding while the two were Ford Foundation Fellows.
“I long admired her. And I was feeling a little bit intimidated, but we were all sitting in a circle and we just struck up a conversation and it went from there,” Harjo recalled.
She took time to talk with Cultivating Culture about the new album, running around Tulsa with Sterlin Harjo and what she wants listeners to hear from the songs.
“The album was put together in a way to help move through, and also to give some inspiration as we move through these times together.”
This interview has been edited for clarity.
Cultivating Culture: You said that the structure of the songs and how the album is sequenced was done intentionally, could you describe a little bit more about what you mean by that?
Joy Harjo: I was thinking a lot about how we moved through the world and the first song (“Insomnia And The Seven Steps To Grace”) I had no plans to do it, but it was an older poem and it was written, well, it was written in New Mexico, but that song is really about kind of going into that kind of a meditative space.
But, it’s intense. I’ve had people say that it almost shifts their reality, that first song, the way, you know, the way that, oh, what is the word? There’s something. It’s, I’m not using the right words, modulate, the way that there’s a modulation, you know, that the tune keeps modulating.
There’s a rabbit story (“Rabbit Is Up To Tricks”) right near the top, which is my own version of a creation story with rabbit, a trickster figure, that relates to exactly what’s going on right now.
And then it goes into, “I Pray For My Enemies” which I had done a version of before, but this one references the Civil War because there’s a song both sides sing (“When Johnny Comes Marching Home”) and I kept thinking, you know how you get earworms?
That song kept going, “the ants go marching one by one, hoorah, hoorah”, I kept going over and I researched and discovered both sides of the Civil War played that same song and I was thinking about how we’re in a Civil War now, but it’s played out mostly in social media and in politics.
And then “Fear Redux”, that was one of my oldest poems. So it all kind of lines up. That way there’s a trajectory to the whole thing.
Then it ends with a classic jazz tune “Goodbye Pork Pie Hat”, a goodbye song is a good way to end an album. It was written by Charles Mingus as a song for his friend the saxophone player, Lester Young, and he always wore a pork pie hat. I always like to acknowledge mentors and teachers. I consider him one because I’ve listened to his music and his sax playing.
The album was put together in a way to help move through and also to give maybe some help or some inspiration as we move through these times together. It was put together with these times in mind.
CC: Tulsa seems to be having a bit of a creative moment now. Are you noticing that too, or what’s the vibe like with that?
JH: Oh, definitely.
Sterlin’s over there right now taping the next second season of The Lowdown and there’s the Tulsa Artist Fellowship.
It’s brought a lot of artists in from all over the country, but also a lot of Native artists come and a lot of them are from around there, or some of them stay from other parts of the country.
So there is a lot going on. Music, music venues, art, fashion, all kinds. Tulsa is always kind of the art center of Oklahoma, but I think even more so now.
CC: Do you feel like you’re also bringing more people back to Oklahoma because they know you’re around there, and the stature and the prominence you create with the creative community?
JH: I think people were surprised because I’ve been long associated with New Mexico and then I was in Hawaii for 11 years, but also living part of the time in New Mexico when I was there. And so New Mexico has been a home base.
Some people were surprised when I came home because I was so established out in the Southwest. We all go home in some way, I’ve always come back and forth, my community is here and I’m connected to my traditional community family.
Everybody’s a cousin, you know?
We’ve been doing a lot of community work in the arts. Several of us established a Muskogee Arts Council for our tribal nation.
I do my work out of here and it’s always been central to who I am and what I do. Sterlin too, is very much in the community. There’s events going on and often Sterlin will be in the audience and I too will be in the audience. I think that energy helped. It’s an energetic thing. We came back, and also we’re not the only ones.
I think there’s something potent going on here, you know?
CC: Yes. That makes me wonder about the importance of community when it comes to establishing support for whatever it is you’re doing, and the importance of community support in the challenging times that we’ve been facing over the past several years. Do you have any thoughts about that?
JH: All the world is shifting and we’re seeing that, and it’s shifting very, very quickly.
A lot of it is tied to what was originally called the World Wide Web. There were a lot of prophecies about that, too. Some people even called it like a spider web and that things would change, not necessarily for the better.
It was a kind of warning in a time where we’re in. Times where there’s A.I. and we’re automatically connected, we could reach almost anyone and so on. But what happens, or what’s been happening, is then you suffer. You suffer your connection with your family, with community.
And people are hungry for that.
You don’t get that kind of nourishment on the internet that you get from being at a concert, being at performances, sitting around a table with people and talking with each other and hearing stories. It’s very different. Yeah. So that’s been a big change.
I think that this A.I. stuff, all of this stuff, happened relatively quickly, and it’s going to run through our cultures in society fairly quickly, and then we’ll be back to our community.
I’m not saying it’s all bad to know that there’s a way we are connected ultimately with everyone. We are all a part of Earth. These times, they can highlight that connection, but it’s so important to be rooted. To know that you’re a part of a circle, a community. That’s so important and it’s specifically important, especially for young people.
I think with COVID and with cell phones and so forth, there has been a lot of kind of rootlessness since, but I think that’s changing.
CC: Have you had any difficulties in the current times creating art or even having the motivation to create?
JH: I’ve not really. I mean, like everybody watching everything go down, it makes you sometimes just want to disappear.
In my life I travel a lot. I meet a lot of young people. My last book, “Girl Warrior” was done especially for young Native women because I meet them everywhere, and I wanted to give them some stories or ideas to help them think about and respect their lives. To think about their lives, and to move forward in a deliberate and strong and beautiful manner.
CC: I asked that from speaking with the other artists who are saying, “Yeah, I’m depressed. I can’t do anything right now.” Or are struggling trying to find that moment to get back into creating something. And every time we come to the conclusion, “Just go try it. It’s probably going to suck, but you’re going to begin the process of moving forward.”
JH: Yeah, and I understand that. We’re in very complicated and difficult times.
It doesn’t matter where you are standing in the story or if you’re on the street. Wherever we’re maneuvering. We have to be careful.
Words are powerful. Images are powerful.
The way we move in the world it’s important to be aware and to look after and take care of each other because we’re not through this yet. When we get to the other side of it, I think we will be surprised and be in a good place, but we’re not there yet.
With the current times, the structure promotes hate. Incententivizes people to be mean, to be disrespectful.
CC: I’ve noticed that it is almost now revolutionary and defiant to have empathy, to care, to walk with grace and to treat others with respect. Is that something you’ve noticed or have thoughts on?
JH: I think that was one of the difficulties, or why I’d stayed away from the state of Oklahoma for so long because the political religious atmosphere here can be very oppressive. It can be very oppressive.
On the other side of it, is Indian Country. These Native nations.
There’s a lot of connection between us here and art too. Art is upheld and even has a place here. That’s all I’m going to say on that, I don’t want to go off on any political rants, but it has been very difficult, and it always goes to the leadership.
One, everyone should be a leader within themselves.
I remember thinking years ago when I was young and I would see these leadership initiatives, and I would always think, even as a student, well, that’s not me. That’s not me. I’m not a leader.
And then, as I’ve grown through the years, I’ve come to understand that it’s important that everyone thinks of themselves as a leader, and that doesn’t mean over people. That means a leader within themselves, somebody who is standing tall and adhering to ethics and certain principles and overall caring.
Caring and paying attention and taking care of the gifts you were given. Everybody has gifts they came into the world with when we took our first breath, that was our promise to step into this world and take care of the gifts that were given to us and to develop them and to share them, and to be a participant in this story, even if it’s difficult.
CC: I wanted to ask you for some of your thoughts and perspectives on the importance of traditional Indigenous languages and how those can also be demonstrated in art?
JH: It’s crucial.
I was around the people who started those early immersion (language) programs, and I’ve seen it in my own nation. There’s a big move because we could lose our languages. There is so much in our language from what I’ve learned. Almost every word is like a genealogical touch point of stories and place, and so on. It’s crucial. Language is crucial to culture.
I’m learning Mvskoke, and actually, I took Navajo language at (The University of New Mexico), I had special permission to take it as my foreign language requirement. I don’t speak it well now, I used to be able to understand Navajo pretty well and speak it decently. I worked for Gloria Emerson’s Language Institute she had in Albuquerque in the late 1970s. I worked over there with Diane Reyna. All that to say is that there is so much in our language from what I’ve learned.
